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Monday, December 25, 2023

Podcast: Harnessing the facility of IoT and AI – The age of Connectivity Twins


On this insightful episode of our technology-focused podcast, host Antony Savvas, Worldwide Expertise Editor, delves into the evolving panorama of the Web of Issues (IoT) and Synthetic Intelligence (AI) with business skilled Gabriel Salvate from BICS. They discover the idea of ‘connectivity twins’ and its pivotal function in environment friendly operations inside varied sectors. Gabriel sheds gentle on the combination of AI and information analytics in IoT, reworking mundane objects into sensible, interconnected programs. Plus, get a glimpse into the longer term with a dialogue on Amazon’s progressive drone supply system. 

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[00:00:00] Antony Savvas: Hello, welcome to our newest Web of Issues and communication providers podcast. That is Antony Savvas, Worldwide Expertise Editor, accompanied by a definite business visitor. Immediately, the principle subject we’re speaking about is the environment friendly operations round connectivity twins. We’ll even be speaking about one other key growth within the communication business, and we’ll end our dialogue with some gentle hearted business information that has surfaced.

Immediately’s podcast is sponsored by BICS. BICS was established practically 20 years in the past, and it gives communication service suppliers and enterprises with quick access to digital communications, trusted fraud prevention, and analytics, together with IoT and 5G world connectivity. It has headquarters in Europe and groups all around the world.

That’s BICS.com. Once more, I’m Antony Savvas. I’ve been overlaying the networking in telecom area repeatedly for the final 25 years, working as a author and editor for main worldwide expertise magazines and web sites. I’m presently a contributing editor for each IoT Now and communications service supplier title Vanilla Plus, a sister title of IoT Now.

My visitor right this moment is Gabriel Salvate from BICS. So Gabriel, what’s your job at BICS and what do you do there?

[00:01:29] Gabriel Salvate: Hi there, Antony. Thanks very a lot for inviting me for the session.

[00:01:34] Antony Savvas: It’s a pleasure.

[00:01:35] Gabriel Salvate: I’m a senior supervisor targeted on the IoT journey mobility and cellular non-public community at BICS. I’ve been working on this market since 2008. And it’s going to be a pleasure to speak with you right this moment.

[00:01:50] Antony Savvas: Okay, proper. So getting on to nearly, effectively, 16 years that shall be quickly, received’t it, Gabriel?

[00:01:56] Gabriel Salvate: That’s right.

[00:01:57] Antony Savvas: Okay. Earlier than we go on to our foremost subject of the day, discussing the connectivity twin, we’ll discuss one thing else. Gabriel, I perceive you wish to discuss scaling the IoT worth chain with AI and information analytics.

Earlier than I ask you a few questions, I’ll simply put individuals within the loop who don’t know an excessive amount of about this. AI and information analytics unlock invaluable insights from the huge information generated from IoT gadgets, enabling information pushed resolution making. So, Gabriel, how are these programs to undertake, and might extra be executed to permit their deployment?

[00:02:32] Gabriel Salvate: That’s query. However earlier than I’ll begin answering this one let’s simply go rapidly to foremost ideas of IoT and AI.

[00:02:41] Antony Savvas: That’s honest sufficient, Gabriel, yeah.

[00:02:43] Gabriel Salvate: I wish to say that IoT is about turning common objects into sensible objects by giving them the flexibility to speak with one another and with us.

And naturally, IoT it’s not a product, not an answer. IoT is an ecosystem. There are some research in regards to the amount of layers it could possibly have, however I’d say there are three foremost ones. So the primary one is the {hardware}, which we’ve sensors and actuators, then we’ve the connectivity. It could possibly be LAN.

It could possibly be WAN native wire community, wi-fi space community. And we’ve the appliance. Once we go to the AI half, AI shouldn’t be one thing actually new. It’s a broad area of pc science that goals to create machines or, I’d say, programs which can be able to performing duties that usually require human, I’d say, intelligence you realize, these duties embrace studying, reasoning, downside fixing, understanding lateral language, perceptions. And the nice half is that any further that the adoption of AI, information analytics at the side of IoT can deliver important advantages that we are going to discover through the session right this moment.

[00:04:07] Antony Savvas: Okay, thanks very a lot for that nice define out of your aspect Gabriel. That was very useful for the listeners. So going again to how, you realize, whether or not these, programs are straightforward to undertake or not. Can extra be executed to permit their deployment in the event that they’re not that straightforward to deploy, I ought to say.

[00:04:25] Gabriel Salvate: Nicely these days, 80% of the functions are hosted in cloud. So the principle problem from an IoT machine is how this information will be shared or how they’ll fill it, the, the cloud system. So mainly corporations, the tech corporations reminiscent of AWS, Microsoft and others. They’ve a form of host that may get this information and every of their programs there are some once more, there may be the cloud ecosystem and a part of this ecosystem. They’ve the machine studying instruments, they’ve AI instruments and and so on. That can be utilized to course of this information. And one good instance is the predictive evaluation. So these days everybody has been speaking about that. And I actually consider that is worth added and one thing straightforward that may be applied utilizing or combining these two options.

[00:05:21] Antony Savvas: Yeah. Simply confirming IoT mixed with AI can predict tools failures, decreasing operational prices and downtime, for instance, and bettering service reliability usually. What’s the present take up of such options and which business verticals, as an example, are utilizing them probably the most? Is take up presently low general?

[00:05:42] Gabriel Salvate: Nicely we do see an enormous variety of individuals engaged on these verticals, evaluating the right way to mix each options. In fact, there are some industries on the forefront of adopting this. Some good examples are, I’ll say the primary one, it’s on the manufacturing aspect. Then we’ve fleet administration, telematics, sensible cities and there’s a good instance that I simply noticed not too long ago to emphasise what I’m saying.

So once we are speaking about sensible cities. AI now can analyse visitors patterns in actual time and alter visitors indicators timing to optimise the visitors circulate. And naturally, on this visitors indicators, there are some IoT gadgets getting the info and sharing the info within the cloud. So there are a variety of good issues occurring.

However once more, these are the three and we can also add well being care as one other good one.

[00:06:43] Antony Savvas: So… healthcare, how important is that? Is that an necessary space for BICS?

[00:06:48] Gabriel Salvate: Sure, we’re mainly every thing that’s in motion as we’re a, a house and supplier and individuals are all the time in motion, I’d say it’s a goal for us. However greater than that, we, we care about individuals and the way this information shall be transferring from an individual to assistant and ensuring that these individuals shall be protected.

[00:07:12] Antony Savvas: Sure. Okay, so we’ve lined some main factors there, Gabriel. What’s the BICS story in all this concerning, for instance, let’s begin with AI. The place is the corporate with AI? Has it made a variety of progress with that?

[00:07:26] Gabriel Salvate: That’s an fascinating query as a result of each time that we’re growing a brand new product at BICS, we attempt to perceive the problematic. And once we have been discussing the right way to implement AI in our options, the right way to strategy, the right way to work with these corporations, the principle query we had on the desk was, how can I get my machine and connectivity information into my utility that’s hosted within the cloud. After which we determined to offer or to create an answer that mainly is a one click on answer to ship the connectivity and IoT machine information into the general public cloud in a scalable approach. That’s that’s necessary to emphasise. However greater than that in a safe strategy to remedy a variety of complexities of doing protocol conversions or delivering that information into the general public cloud.

So, mainly, we have been trying on the right way to unlock alternatives. So mainly now you possibly can have, for instance, a 360 machine administration view. You are able to do quicker troubleshooting. You possibly can have an finish to finish safety view. So a few of these advantages are extraordinarily necessary, however… Going into your query when it comes to use instances particularly on the IoT aspect.

We all know that the battery life cycle is among the foremost nightmares for builders and and so on. And utilizing one of these answer, we are able to, for instance, predict the battery life for low energy vast space gadgets, or we are able to determine when the machine firmware ought to be up to date and issues like that.

In order that’s once more, a pleasant merge of the options and utilizing our answer connectivity twin, we are able to enable clients to do one of these stuff.

[00:09:27] Antony Savvas: That’s, that’s that seems like there’s some good progress being made there on the firm. In order that’s good to listen to. As a result of clearly everybody’s received an AI story. And the very last thing we wish to hear is what I’d name as AI washing. Similar to greenwashing in relation to the atmosphere. It seems to be such as you’re making some actual progress there, Gabriel.

[00:09:44] Gabriel Salvate: That’s right. So once more, the principle goal is to create, in our surroundings, as I mentioned, we’ve the {hardware}, we’ve the connectivity, we’ve the appliance. And typically builders, they need to handle completely different functions from completely different distributors. So, and this brings a variety of complexity and that mentioned. So the concept right here is, after all, we’re promoting for builders as a result of BICS is a, it’s a B2B firm and a part of our goal is to enhance I’ll say buyer journey, proper? And the client journey on the developer aspect, and if they’ll purchase time, if they’ll optimize their answer, if they’ll predict one thing utilizing our merchandise.

That is what we’re in search of.

[00:10:28] Antony Savvas: And one other space, I think about that, you realize, 5G has a significant function in all this, placing all of the necessary items collectively and supporting them.

[00:10:37] Gabriel Salvate: Sure. Sure. 5G is, I imply one of many foremost benefits to have IoT gadgets working on 5G it’s not solely in regards to the downloads, the add charges, and, and so on. So right here we’re speaking about latency. However the 5G will enable gadgets to course of excessive or large quantity of knowledge and on the opposite aspect you must have or you will need to have programs that may predict actual time choices, proper? 

[00:11:08] Antony Savvas: Yeah. So when it comes to actual time resolution making that’s crucial in these eventualities. What kind of progress as an organization have you ever executed in actual time resolution making to truly assist the companions and the tip clients there?

[00:11:23] Gabriel Salvate: Mainly one of many, I’d say the, pillars of the AI is to optimize the choice making course of. In fact, if you find yourself growing a product, you should deal with how optimize operational prices, reduce downtimes and, and so on. Now with 5G, and BICS has been investing lots on 5G standalone, in order that’s one thing necessary to spotlight. We do see an enormous variety of IoT gadgets utilizing one of these expertise, as a result of then you possibly can transact an enormous quantity of knowledge, after which, act and react as fast as attainable. It’s extraordinarily necessary. In order that’s one other good instance of what IoT and AI can do collectively.

[00:12:06] Antony Savvas: Yeah, and general, I imply, we talked about scalability on the finish. Folks, you realize, listening to this is able to be pondering, effectively, if, if I’m going into this area and I wish to check issues, how do I really, scale it as much as make it commercially advantageous to my firm? How can BICS, you realize, assist these organizations with their scaling up of this expertise?

I think about you’ve received the assist networks, the inner experience to assist them try this.

[00:12:32] Gabriel Salvate: Sure, that’s right. What BICS does and it’s necessary to emphasise. At BICS we’ve two massive teams. We now have the Telco group, which we’re engaged on the 5G standalone promoting these options for MNOs. On the, on the enterprise aspect, BICS is connectivity supplier. So we’re a part of the ecosystem.

So, when it comes to enabling clients to have the most effective connectivity when it comes to efficiency and and so on. However now we’re going one step past, so we’re working with the cloud suppliers to supply the answer by way of the connectivity twin. So right here once more, we are able to discuss stability, scalability on two completely different eventualities.

We are able to search for the connectivity perspective. So BICS owns your entire infrastructure and on the cloud aspect, which gamers have been utilizing corporations reminiscent of AWS and Microsoft or others, we’re a part of it. In order that’s the 2 methods we are able to work. Ensuring the builders or the corporate could have the most effective answer for, for it.

[00:13:40] Antony Savvas: That’s nice. In order that was introduction to the podcast with our first subject there. We’re now going to maneuver on to the principle subject. So thanks for that first half, Gabriel. We’re going to be speaking about connectivity twins. Now, simply to type of set the scene right here for the viewers, talking of digital twins basically, a digital twin is mainly software program illustration from sensors.

With digital twins, the concept is {that a} digital twin of an current product, for instance, is maintained with consistently collected manufacturing and enterprise information. That’s the overall idea of digital twins. What we’re speaking about right here right this moment Gabriel, isn’t it? Is the connectivity twin. And we had the topic of how can I get my machine and connectivity information into my utility that’s hosted within the cloud?

So when you may simply clarify to the viewers, Gabriel, what are we speaking about once we discuss a connectivity twin?

[00:14:35] Gabriel Salvate: Good. Okay. So let’s assume in three massive blocks. We now have the digital twin utility, proper? Then we’ve the connectivity which buyer can use BICS connectivity. After which the concept is: how can I deliver connectivity information within the cloud, simplifying the complexity of it? In order that’s the that’s the primary half.

So mainly connectivity twins, it’s a digital illustration of machine connectivity properties, proper? So on the connectivity, there are a number of objects that may be analysed and this let’s say this. Infos shall be accessible for customers in a bidirectional approach to allow them to learn, they’ll test, they’ll act, and and so on.

So briefly, you possibly can deliver connectivity information straight to the digital twin platform. In order that’s the very first thing. The second you possibly can translate, them into an comprehensible language for our buyer, as a result of once we are speaking once more, utilizing the battery life cycle administration. So, right here we’ve objects reminiscent of DRX, PSM operator hat, and et cetera.

So we’re speaking about advanced, objects that may be simply introduced in a dashboard for patrons. And the third one is to offer precisely a wise connectivity dashboard. So briefly they are going to have the connectivity information within the cloud. The information it’s going to be translated in easy phrases by way of dashboards, that’s I’d say the idea of the product. The great half is that may run in AWS and Microsoft, which represents, I’d say, 90 % of the functions.

[00:16:34] Antony Savvas: That’s proper. So what different advantages for the customers are there from this fashion of working supplied by BICS and its companions? What different issues come to thoughts? I think about you’re pondering of, what are the listeners asking right here? What are the issues they’ll be screaming for?

So far as you’re involved. Is BICS addressing the problems our viewers are in all probability fascinated by there when it comes to what their wants are with this connectivity answer?

[00:16:59] Gabriel Salvate: Nicely, there are a number of objects that may be lined. I’d say the primary one is which you can choose robotically community with higher protection, proper? So one of many issues we offer, it’s a multi-IMSI and utilizing this answer, you possibly can select the most effective one.

The second, we all know, is that clients are extraordinarily involved about fraud. Safety is among the subjects, so mainly right here you possibly can block connectivity in case of suspected fraud. The third one I’ve highlighted earlier than is you could have the flexibility to determine when the machine ought to be up to date when the firmware ought to be upgraded, for instance and we’re speaking about low energy vast gadgets like slim band IoT, LTE-M, cat-m you possibly can predict the battery life. In order that’s these 4 objects are extraordinarily necessary within the IoT state of affairs. And to finalise greater than that, you possibly can haven’t solely the connectivity information however you can even have the machine information working within the single or in the identical platform, the one pane of glass. That’s one other fascinating factor about this product. 

[00:18:17] Antony Savvas: So simply, simply so I’ve received this proper. So utilizing this answer BICS clients can handle all their IoT gadgets to realize management to enhance the general high quality of service and information safety for his or her clients. Is that, that is what we’re doing right here. Yeah.

[00:18:33] Gabriel Salvate: That’s right. It’s completely right.

[00:18:35] Antony Savvas: Okay. That’s nice to know. And is it proper that you simply get the entire image by managing your connectivity and gadgets from a single platform, successfully, is that right?

[00:18:46] Gabriel Salvate: That’s right. Then, as a result of briefly, we are able to I’ll say unlock new alternatives for patrons as a result of now they’ve a DMP, a tool administration platform working in a single aspect. They’ve the connectivity administration platform working in one other aspect. So that they do the interactions or the integrations through APIs.

However any further, they are going to have the flexibility to have each objects working collectively, after which it will assist them to have the 360 machine administration view. So that you don’t have to spend time on product integrations and that’s it. As I mentioned, it’s going to be a one single click on integration. That’s it.

 Mainly we’re serving to them to purchase in time.

[00:19:24] Antony Savvas: Yeah. So simply, I’ve received this proper as effectively. So successfully, BICS clients combine their digital twin with all of the connectivity metadata of their SIMs or eSIMs to unlock new insights quicker. Is that this all linked to what you’re speaking about right here?

[00:19:39] Gabriel Salvate: Yeah, yeah, that’s right.

[00:19:41] Antony Savvas: Okay, proper. So, Gabriel there are points round you realize, digital twins and associated to the connectivity twin, the info that’s been generated, it’s going up and up and up, similar to is all over the place.

It impacts the IoT business. I’ve been at conferences earlier than. Some individuals have defined that the sensors that exist are going to should be developed to truly sustain with the processing energy which is producing all this information. The chipsets are getting quicker. The sensors are going to should get quicker.

The quantity of knowledge being generated by corporations is getting larger. So the programs should get extra highly effective. As an IoT business, which clearly BICS is a key participant in. How do you assume as an ecosystem the IoT business with BICS can really sort out these issues with its cloud companions in regards to the speeds of the info and the quantity of knowledge?

What comes into your thoughts when it comes to how we are able to transfer ahead as an business, Gabriel?

[00:20:42] Gabriel Salvate: That’s a superb level. Antony. Right here we, we see the applied sciences getting extra mature. So on the connectivity aspect, we’ve 5G. Now we’ve 5 5G SA. The amount of knowledge that in a sure approach must be transacted are rising closely. There are some methodologies which we are able to deal with this information.

Okay, so on the {hardware} aspect we’ve the sting computing half. So you possibly can course of the info close to to the sensor. So you may get the info, you possibly can interpret what’s necessary or not. Disregard what shouldn’t be and ship to the subsequent layer what’s necessary. On the connectivity aspect because the networks are getting extra highly effective so we are able to be sure that the latency it’s not going to be affected, that the obtain and add charges shall be okay and as quickly as the info arrives Into the cloud system then there may be an ecosystem prepared to organize that.

So simply to do an instance on the AWS and Microsoft, they’ve the IoT core or the IoT hub. So these two programs, they act like a concierge. They are going to get the info and they’ll distribute internally primarily based on the client utility, after which you possibly can apply machine studying, you possibly can apply synthetic intelligence, you possibly can retailer information, you possibly can merely present the info and disrespect the remainder. So there are some methods to implement this, nevertheless it’s an necessary truth, and BICS has been investing closely within the community aspect, to ensure we are able to provide the most effective answer for our clients.

[00:22:30] Antony Savvas: And there’s an extension that very briefly, clearly, I imply, information safety and IoT, it’s an entire new podcast by itself, however briefly once we discuss how the info safety wants are evolving and the way the business can really have a look at information safety. How do you see the business dealing with that within the medium to long run scenario?

[00:22:51] Gabriel Salvate: Yeah, safety if it’s not the primary one is the second subject most mentioned in, in our surroundings. So once more, there are a number of components the place the safety layers are relevant. Okay, so on the connectivity aspect, there’s a answer known as IoT SAFE, which is a normal outlined by the GSMA.

So it’s a root of belief answer that may be put in immediately within the SIM card to be able to be sure that nobody could have entry to the SIM card itself, proper? There are different ones which you are able to do the identical on the {hardware} aspect, so you possibly can, for instance, apply digital non-public networks or non-public APNs to be able to be certain that.

So once more, there are a number of methodologies on the right way to deal with this. However in that that’s one of the vital necessary subjects for the time being.

[00:23:52] Antony Savvas: Yeah, and thanks for these key pointers, Gabriel, perhaps we’ll discuss that as a separate podcast within the sooner or later. So, clearly we’ve been fairly detailed about among the the overall points, speaking in regards to the business usually, and, and going, going into what, you realize BICS is doing, the way it’s transferring ahead.

It’s necessary to ensure we don’t miss something right here. So would you wish to have another details about, you realize, the BICS providing? A number of the key factors which, due to my fault, I haven’t really dropped at the floor right here. So is there anything you’d wish to say what BICS particularly is doing with this connectivity twin technique and providing?

[00:24:27] Gabriel Salvate: Sure, I wish to say that BICS is transferring from connectivity. We use it to be a connectivity supplier and now we’re an answer supplier, proper? So we’ve, after all, we’ve our core community, so we’re a world MVNO, MVNE. So we’ve non-public IPX options. We now have regional platforms, we’ve NEFB core expertise and and so on.

However once more on this atmosphere, it’s all the time necessary to know what is occurring and see how one can adapt your self. So we launched not too long ago two new layers. One is the worth added providers, which we’ve eSIM for customers and eSIMs for IoT options. We now have connectivity twin, we’ve sensible information, which is I’d say the distinctive and world actual time information analytics platform. We now have options for resellers, we’ve the IoT SAFE after which we’ve the skilled providers.

So mainly now clients can have, the assist through the growth section from an skilled crew that may assist them throughout your entire course of. In order that’s what we’re doing now. In fact, connectivity twin is among the most fascinating tasks that we’re engaged on.

And once more, it’s necessary to emphasise that it’s not solely about connectivity, nevertheless it’s about how we assist clients on the ecosystem itself.

[00:25:55] Antony Savvas: Okay, effectively thanks for that nice dialogue. I’m certain there are various necessary and fascinating items of knowledge for the listeners to digest there. We’ll end right this moment with some extra gentle hearted business developments. Gabriel one thing has caught your eye and earlier than you, will discuss it, I’ll simply inform the readers the place we learn this.

 In it was reported in IoT tech information and different locations to be sincere about Amazon’s plans about increasing their prime edge roaming package deal supply system to worldwide places. Beginning subsequent 12 months, clients within the UK, Italy. And a 3rd undisclosed metropolis within the U. S. could have the choice to obtain their packages through drones.

And we talked about drones firstly of our dialog, that among the listeners might keep in mind. The present Prime Air service is already operational within the U. S., and it has been for a 12 months, and it’s been delivering packages weighing as much as 5 kilos with one hour. That’s fairly a key service promise.

Prime Air’s growth will embrace the introduction of the MK 30 drone, which can be a quieter, smaller, and lighter mannequin in comparison with its predecessors. And so it seems like there’s some thrilling information after maybe speaking about this over, um, the previous couple of years. Gabriel, how do you really see this Trade alternative growing and might you see any difficulties, for instance…

[00:27:22] Gabriel Salvate: Sure. That’s one of many explanation why I really like expertise. So we are able to see these issues occurring. And naturally, bettering our lives ultimately of the day. That’s what’s necessary. It’s a pleasant instance on how IoT, robotics and synthetic intelligence can work collectively. So you could have a drone that’s managed by somebody, and mainly, you possibly can ship packages remotely. So look, you could have a drone with an enormous quantity of sensors linked in a 5G community, taking choices in actual time, sending maybe SMS or message to the tip clients informing that the package deal shall be delivered then you should be sure that nobody will entry the drone and alter the route.

So safety is, one of many necessary subjects. Then you should be sure that your air visitors system shall be accessible to have these drones working you realize, that there are a variety of parts working on the identical kind of mission. So this could possibly be thought-about IoT, robotics, AI, but additionally a part of the sensible metropolis mission.

It’s one thing that can assist to enhance our lives, that’s what I really like and I actually consider that is one thing extraordinarily disruptive and greater than that, we can’t neglect that these drones even have a GPS or satellite tv for pc connections. So that you see a 5G satellite tv for pc on the connectivity aspect, you see cloud, synthetic intelligence, machine studying, taking real-time choices, saving the info, informing the client. Then you could have one other communication platform to save lots of the info, so there’s a bunch of functions working into the identical ecosystem. It’s actually actually fascinating. And I actually consider that is the longer term.

And greater than this, it’s occurring and it’s occurring now.

[00:29:24] Antony Savvas: That’s it. It’s what we name forefront expertise, however then what some individuals additionally describe as bleeding edge expertise, and I think about which may be a BICS might wish to get extra concerned when perhaps it’s not bleeding a lot. Is that right?

[00:29:37] Gabriel Salvate: Yeah, we try to organize ourselves for that. That’s the purpose.

[00:29:44] Antony Savvas: Okay. So I’ll simply inform the listeners now, I imply that’s the tip of podcast that making the factors. However there’s a, there’s a little bit of housekeeping right here. I’ve received to say the actual fact there’ll a transcript of necessary dialogue right here, the entire podcast and seem on the printed podcast on our web site, and it’ll affirm any hyperlinks that we’ve been speaking about as effectively. I’d additionally um, like to provide the listeners the chance to have the ability to contact you in the event that they needed to Gabriel. So, what can be the easiest way of them, you realize, monitoring you down on the web? What, is there any social media platform you’d like to say that they’ll contact you?

[00:30:20] Gabriel Salvate: Yeah, I can share my LinkedIn sure. Yeah. I can put right here within the, the chat. https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabriel-salvate-97200429/ 

[00:30:26] Antony Savvas: So perhaps we may put these within the transcript. So when you may provide these we are able to put them within the transcript after which they might simply contact you. Is that honest sufficient?

[00:30:35] Gabriel Salvate: Yeah. In fact.

[00:30:36] Antony Savvas: Okay. Proper. And so after that very detailed dialogue, it simply stays for me to say thanks very a lot to the listeners for tuning in.

After which, while you see this podcast printed, when you may use the social media buttons on the printed podcast to tell us what you considered it. And that simply stays for me to say that’s goodbye from me, Antony Savvas. And Gabriel, it’s goodbye from you, sure?

[00:31:01] Gabriel Salvate: Sure. It was a pleasure to speak with you. Trying ahead for the subsequent alternative. Thanks very a lot.

[00:31:06] Antony Savvas: Completely. Thanks very a lot. Bye bye all. Bye bye now.

[00:31:09] Gabriel Salvate: Bye bye.​ 

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